Fallout Continues Over Obama-Chimpanzee Email
Fallout Continues Over Obama-Chimpanzee Email
The controversy continues over the Obama-chimpanzee email sent by Southern California Tea Party activist and member of the central committee of the Orange County Republican Party, Marilyn Davenport. picked by drogue 1 week ago
tags obama chimpanzee tea party racism offwithherhead
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49
 Moe
1 week ago
Class act she is. All the way.
54
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23
 DoggySpe...
1 week ago
First time (and probably last time) I'm going to on the defense of these asshats:

50
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2
 MrWinter
1 week ago
Hey doggiespew....something we can agree on. What's good for dems to do they should be able to take it as much as they dish it out but that goes just about for all politicians
-12
quote #4
2
 MrWinter
1 week ago
-12
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28
 derAlt
1 week ago
« DoggySpew : First time (and probably last time) I'm going to on the defense of these asshats:

Not quite the same thing DS.

The Dubya thing was most likely about equivalent IQ while the Obama thing can be perceived as having racial connotations.
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quote #6
54
 2manyuse...
1 week ago
<sigh>

s**t like this always brings out the hypocrite in people.

You'll laugh so hard at jokes that poke fun at any of a million other groups but lord forbid certain people make a joke about certain protected groups.

Think of one of the funnier jokes you laughed at, at your favorite comedians, sitcoms, etc, etc.

You'll find that most of the humor pokes fun at some group or other. It is no more "hate-speech" to make a joke about some woman who sits "around" the house. Also no group is sacred and exempt from being made fun of.

It is in the intention. If the intent is racist and hate-filled, than it reprehensible and inexcusable. That is most likely not the case here. It was meant as a joke. That is it. You may call the woman a racist pig who should be fired, then drawn and quartered but think about some of the jokes you laugh at and repeat. You just may find that some other group may feel you should be fired, drawn, and quartered.


Perfect example:

Halle Berry makes a silly joke on Leno about Jewish people and the stereotypical size of their noses. She catches all sorts of flak from the media and from Leno.

What was bulls**t and hypocritical is that on same show Leno made a silly lame joke about French people based on the stereotype about their tendency to surrender. Leon gets millions and adoration. Halle has to plead for forgiveness.

Neither one was meant seriously. Halle's was less insulting yet she was the one nearly shot at sunrise.

tl;dr
don't call someone a racist just because they tell a joke unless your jokes don't poke fun at any particular group.
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quote #7
2
 MrWinter
1 week ago
« derAlt : Not quite the same thing DS.

The Dubya thing was most likely about equivalent IQ while the Obama thing can be perceived as having racial connotations.
You just made it racist by saying that..it is the same thing, we are all family of the ape family some of us have different skin color...so by saying because a chimp is dark complected and compared to obama that it is a racial thing but you can justify the dems doing this to george w. Because he was a little slow in the head....now your just making excuses to justify one over the other. Ther is right and there is wrong you can't let one group do one thing and tell another group not to do the same thing because it might offend some one...


We have a constitutional freedom of speech....also means you have the right to be offended by anything anyone says..also allows us to post here ..in the paper...speaking in public....remember that when you make a post on plime
0
quote #8
2
 MrWinter
1 week ago
« derAlt : Not quite the same thing DS.

The Dubya thing was most likely about equivalent IQ while the Obama thing can be perceived as having racial connotations.
You just made it racist by saying that..it is the same thing, we are all family of the ape family some of us have different skin color...so by saying because a chimp is dark complected and compared to obama that it is a racial thing but you can justify the dems doing this to george w. Because he was a little slow in the head....now your just making excuses to justify one over the other. Ther is right and there is wrong you can't let one group do one thing and tell another group not to do the same thing because it might offend some one...


We have a constitutional freedom of speech....also means you have the right to be offended by anything anyone says..also allows us to post here ..in the paper...speaking in public....remember that when you make a post on plime
0
quote #9
2
 MrWinter
1 week ago
0
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26
 madhatte...
1 week ago
The Tea Party offends my Mad Hateryness....
54
quote #11
22
 Interest...
1 week ago
« 2manyusernames : <sigh>

s**t like this always brings out the hypocrite in people.

You'll laugh so hard at jokes that poke fun at any of a million other groups but lord forbid certain people make a joke about certain protected groups.

Think of one of the funnier jokes you laughed at, at your favorite comedians, sitcoms, etc, etc.

You'll find that most of the humor pokes fun at some group or other. It is no more "hate-speech" to make a joke about some woman who sits "around" the house. Also no group is sacred and exempt from being made fun of.

It is in the intention. If the intent is racist and hate-filled, than it reprehensible and inexcusable. That is most likely not the case here. It was meant as a joke. That is it. You may call the woman a racist pig who should be fired, then drawn and quartered but think about some of the jokes you laugh at and repeat. You just may find that some other group may feel you should be fired, drawn, and quartered.


Perfect example:

Halle Berry makes a silly joke on Leno about Jewish people and the stereotypical size of their noses. She catches all sorts of flak from the media and from Leno.

What was bulls**t and hypocritical is that on same show Leno made a silly lame joke about French people based on the stereotype about their tendency to surrender. Leon gets millions and adoration. Halle has to plead for forgiveness.

Neither one was meant seriously. Halle's was less insulting yet she was the one nearly shot at sunrise.

tl;dr
don't call someone a racist just because they tell a joke unless your jokes don't poke fun at any particular group.
Agreed.

Actually TECHNICALLY we all have the same skin "color" just different levels of melanin. A quick google to verify this taught me something new...melanin comes from the Greek for "black" so there you go...we are all black...making George Washington the first "black" president. So put that in your pipe and smoke it...
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16
 shoestix
6 days ago
This is an insult to chimpanzees everywhere.
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28
 drogue
6 days ago
« 2manyusernames :
...What was bulls**t and hypocritical is that on same show Leno made a silly lame joke about French people based on the stereotype about their tendency to surrender. Leon gets millions and adoration. Halle has to plead for forgiveness. Neither one was meant seriously. Halle's was less insulting yet she was the one nearly shot at sunrise.
"Surrendering" is a decision, an act—a conscious behavior any person can exhibit. Having a large nose is an inherited physical trait, like dark skin. For me, opinions on humor by anyone unable or unwilling to tell the difference should be discarded.

« Interesting : Actually TECHNICALLY we all have the same skin "color" just different levels of melanin. A quick google to verify this taught me something new...melanin comes from the Greek for "black" so there you go...we are all black...making George Washington the first "black" president. So put that in your pipe and smoke it...
Ok, but that's like saying paint is all the same color, but for the pigment (which is basically true, but misses the point). Plus, ancient Greeks, for all their sophistication, had a far-different methodology for describing colors than we do now. For example, Homer described the color of the sky as "bronze."

« shoestix : This is an insult to chimpanzees everywhere.
Now, see, this actually works as a joke. Not the best joke, but it works. It makes a political implication counter to my beliefs, but the redirection is what holds it together.

Racial humor is a tricky business. Much depends on the status of the races involved. Deprecating your own race usually works ok. Deprecating other races must be approached with caution, especially if the two have been at odds.

But a politician simply superimposing a chimp's head over a black man's? No, no caution there—that just smacks of the lowest-common-denominator, mean-spirited garbage I used to see as a xeroxed copy on the walls of '70s used-car dealers' offices.

The GOP has spoken out against this image, and its own author, Davenport has apologized for it. Why try and defend it?
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quote #14
22
 Interest...
6 days ago
« drogue : 
Ok, but that's like saying paint is all the same color, but for the pigment (which is basically true, but misses the point). Plus, ancient Greeks, for all their sophistication, had a far-different methodology for describing colors than we do now. For example, Homer described the color of the sky as "bronze."
Ok, let's take that to the next level. Except for the color...paint is paint. (let's be specific...latex paint is latex paint, because I know someone will argue that point) The same is true for people. The color of your skin does not change the make-up of the person.
Also the greek word for black is used...but it wasn't the greek who named melanin.
Also, at sunset the sky can be considered "bronze" and Homer was a poet, so to say "the sunset" instead of the "bronze sky" made him look all artistic and s**t.
0
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1
 onlyTRUT...
5 days ago
So did chimpanzees write an email to the president or to the republicans?
28
quote #16
54
 2manyuse...
5 days ago
« drogue : "Surrendering" is a decision, an act—a conscious behavior any person can exhibit. Having a large nose is an inherited physical trait, like dark skin. For me, opinions on humor by anyone unable or unwilling to tell the difference should be discarded.
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt as I can't imagine you meant to say what you said.

Read what you wrote.

You implied Leno's joke about the French was fine (or at least not as obnoxious) because it was about the stereotype action[/] of the french being cowards who are quick to surrender.

According to you, Halle's joke was wrong or at least more offensive because it was about a physical trait.

So according to your statement, jokes about Jewish noses or African American lips are bad since they are physical traits but jokes about Jewish stinginess or African American's love of fried chicken are fine because they are actions, decisions.

That is what you said. Obviously that is a ridiculous notion.
48
quote #17
28
 derAlt
4 days ago
« MrWinter : You just made it racist by saying that..it is the same thing, we are all family of the ape family some of us have different skin color...so by saying because a chimp is dark complected and compared to obama that it is a racial thing but you can justify the dems doing this to george w. Because he was a little slow in the head....now your just making excuses to justify one over the other. Ther is right and there is wrong you can't let one group do one thing and tell another group not to do the same thing because it might offend some one...


We have a constitutional freedom of speech....also means you have the right to be offended by anything anyone says..also allows us to post here ..in the paper...speaking in public....remember that when you make a post on plime
I can only assume you are either too young or just ill-informed not to have known that for many years, in the past, associating blacks with any member of the ape family was a favorite "allegation" by the various racist groups, particularly in the South.

Recognizing a racist connection does NOT create the connection.
22
quote #18
28
 drogue
4 days ago
« 2manyusernames:jokes about Jewish stinginess or African American's love of fried chicken are fine because they are actions, decisions.

That is what you said. Obviously that is a ridiculous notion.
No, those kinds of jokes aren't about actions, but about presumed actions based on already-established stereotypes.

The French military surrenders were actions well-documented in history. The prejudice against the French shown in American culture probably has its roots in the millennium-long Franco-Anglo rivalry, but amplified in the 20th century by the French military failures in WWII, and Vietnam.

Yes, even though the French helped America out during our Revolution 200-odd years ago, by the mid-20th century, our political and cultural alliance with the British Empire speaks more about our English colonial provenance than our sense of historical fairness.

"The stingy Jew" stereotype, however, comes from much further back, during the medieval diaspora, after which Jewish communities in Europe tended toward inclusion, and successfully formed a "Jewish" middle class, due to innovative trade practices—a development which flew in the face of serfdom for most native Europeans, which caused much economic resentment. See: Shakespeare's "Shylock" character.

Caricatures of physical features of Jews and blacks are an unfortunate feature of early 20th-century white European iconography. Especially in the case of Jews, such imagery was used and promoted by those seeking to inflame racially-based nationalistic passions.

The stereotype of blacks who "naturally love" fried chicken comes from the reconstruction-era South. Chickens are an easy animal to raise for an impoverished farm, and everyone in the South, blacks and whites alike partook, and still do. Kentucky Fried Chicken didn't get its start by catering to African Americans. Dave Chappelle has made much fun of this stereotype, along with the one about watermelon by saying "If you don't like chicken and watermelon, something is wrong with you, motherfucker."

In other words, if fried chickens, or watermelon are such a "black" food, how come so many white people eat them?

This stereotype probably took its modern hold soon after the great depression, once American whites had gained a new economic foothold, and rural blacks were characterized as still "being back on the farm," even amongst themselves.

One of the reasons Jimi Hendrix was thought of as "revolutionary" was he was still playing blues guitar in an age where most black musicians were into Jazz, and thought of blues guitar as "old farmboy, cornbread shit."

Even so, Charlie Parker didn't get his nickname because he looked like a chicken.

The contemptible characterization of a black person as an ape originates out of the same era, but has its roots in the Enlightenment-based "historical" idea that people from Africa were more "animalistic" in their features and general behavior.

This was reinforced in America during the reconstruction by garbage like "minstrel shows," and unfortunate early "Uncle Tom"-like performances by black Minstrel entertainers. The threads of this trend can unfortunately still be seen today.

So, in summary:

1. French surrenders are well-documented maneuvers by a powerful political body, and were based on political expediency, not on race.
2. The role of Jewish people in the development of the European middle class has been a long-standing source of resentment from white Europeans since the middle ages. This isn't a "stereotypical behavior of stinginess," but a well-documented resentment of white European people toward the Jews. (FFS, read about the history of the Moors, if you have any doubt.)
3. Black people in America love fried chicken, and so do white people in America, and most people around the world.
4. For someone who should know better, a white American politician graphically characterizing a man with African heritage as an ape, or a Jew with "big lips," or a "hook nose" is ugly, blatant fucking racism.

This is assumed by most reasonable people in our country. The woman has apologized, along with her only hope of a party. What is driving you to defend something she has disavowed?
28
quote #19
54
 2manyuse...
3 days ago
« drogue:No, those kinds of jokes aren't about actions, but about presumed actions based on already-established stereotypes.

The French military surrenders were actions well-documented in history. The prejudice against the French shown in American culture probably has its roots in the millennium-long Franco-Anglo rivalry, but amplified in the 20th century by the French military failures in WWII, and Vietnam.

Yes, even though the French helped America out during our Revolution 200-odd years ago, by the mid-20th century, our political and cultural alliance with the British Empire speaks more about our English colonial provenance than our sense of historical fairness.

"The stingy Jew" stereotype, however, comes from much further back, during the medieval diaspora, after which Jewish communities in Europe tended toward inclusion, and successfully formed a "Jewish" middle class, due to innovative trade practices—a development which flew in the face of serfdom for most native Europeans, which caused much economic resentment. See: Shakespeare's "Shylock" character.

Caricatures of physical features of Jews and blacks are an unfortunate feature of early 20th-century white European iconography. Especially in the case of Jews, such imagery was used and promoted by those seeking to inflame racially-based nationalistic passions.

The stereotype of blacks who "naturally love" fried chicken comes from the reconstruction-era South. Chickens are an easy animal to raise for an impoverished farm, and everyone in the South, blacks and whites alike partook, and still do. Kentucky Fried Chicken didn't get its start by catering to African Americans. Dave Chappelle has made much fun of this stereotype, along with the one about watermelon by saying "If you don't like chicken and watermelon, something is wrong with you, motherfucker."

In other words, if fried chickens, or watermelon are such a "black" food, how come so many white people eat them?

This stereotype probably took its modern hold soon after the great depression, once American whites had gained a new economic foothold, and rural blacks were characterized as still "being back on the farm," even amongst themselves.

One of the reasons Jimi Hendrix was thought of as "revolutionary" was he was still playing blues guitar in an age where most black musicians were into Jazz, and thought of blues guitar as "old farmboy, cornbread shit."

Even so, Charlie Parker didn't get his nickname because he looked like a chicken.

The contemptible characterization of a black person as an ape originates out of the same era, but has its roots in the Enlightenment-based "historical" idea that people from Africa were more "animalistic" in their features and general behavior.

This was reinforced in America during the reconstruction by garbage like "minstrel shows," and unfortunate early "Uncle Tom"-like performances by black Minstrel entertainers. The threads of this trend can unfortunately still be seen today.

So, in summary:

1. French surrenders are well-documented maneuvers by a powerful political body, and were based on political expediency, not on race.
2. The role of Jewish people in the development of the European middle class has been a long-standing source of resentment from white Europeans since the middle ages. This isn't a "stereotypical behavior of stinginess," but a well-documented resentment of white European people toward the Jews. (FFS, read about the history of the Moors, if you have any doubt.)
3. Black people in America love fried chicken, and so do white people in America, and most people around the world.
4. For someone who should know better, a white American politician graphically characterizing a man with African heritage as an ape, or a Jew with "big lips," or a "hook nose" is ugly, blatant fucking racism.

This is assumed by most reasonable people in our country. The woman has apologized, along with her only hope of a party. What is driving you to defend something she has disavowed?
I am not defending it.
I am simply pointing out the truth.

A joke is a joke.
A racially-based joke is not automatically racist no more than a BLANK-based joke is BLANKist.

A large number of your favorite jokes poke fun at some group or other, usually by ridiculing exaggerated stereotypes.

So the joke is not racist in itself, nor is she automatically a racist. However she is a complete idiot since she should have known that is what would happen. She should have known that some jokes need a certain context, a certain situation for it to be acceptable. Her certainly crossed that line and was offensive but that doesn't mean all racially-based jokes are wrong.

The problem is today, everything and everyone is labeled a racist. All too often the term "racist" is used to make an attack on someone that they can not defend. Calling all actions racist risks having the real racist actions less offensive in appearance. It is the classic boy-who-cried-wolf problem.

You get told to turn off your cellphone, have your receipt checks, get crappy service at a $3.99 diner place, have a closed store refuse to open up to service you? To some that's racist. Sometimes it is. Often times - most times it isn't. Sadly once the claim is made too often you question the next time it is made.

What is really funny is often times it is Whites who are the loudest in making racist calls on stuff that isn't. A reporter writes an article about Tiger Woods and uses the term lynching. A huge uproar happens because to use that term must mean the author is a racist. Sure Tiger Woods said it was obviously not racist and he wasn't offended, but the whites basically told him they knew better than he - which is a rather racist notion itself.

False claims of racism isn't new of course. Jimmy The Greek was famously fired and was accused of being a racist when he discussed that one reason so many African-Americans are physically strong and big is because of the slave trade and the fact that the slave owners would purchase and breed for such traits.

Is that a racist statement? No, it isn't as so many African-Americans stated. That didn't matter to the white media though. They knew better and knew it was racist.

Amusingly as Norm McDonalad pointed out, there is a certain irony in firing someone named Jimmy The Greek for being racist. Wouldn't calling him "the greek" be racist? :)
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