Inspired by the ongoing dogsecks debate I'd like to hear your opinions on the prohibition of incest between consenting adults.

As for Germany, the laws have only recently been reviewed due to current events - the Federal Constitutional Court declared them them to be in accordance with the constitution. One of the judges, however, voted against those laws, making a pretty good point in my opinion:

The main argument against incest between consenting adults is the increased risk of inheriting genetic defects, i.e. an argument of eugenics. Eugenics, however, are not and should not be an issue of any government - the right of (sexual) self-determination as a constitutionally declared human right should accordingly be rated higher.

Furthermore, the "increased" risk of genetic defects mentioned above seems to be significantly lower in reality than generally assumed - serious "inbreeding" of entire communities for several decades or centuries is an entirely different issue - the incest laws aren't even about reproduction, but about intercourse itself. Plus, if a non-related couple attended genetic counseling, and the result revealed an increased risk of inherited disorders for children originating from that relationship, a (hypothetical) eugenics law hindering those people from having their babies despite that known risk would probably cause a rage among civil rights activists.

So why shouldn't we be allowed to do our sisters or brothers?

Sucker, are you an only child?

Just askin...

Yes. Bummer, I know.

MMOG I wish you were my brother!



*brainzzzz brraaaaainz! must eet brainz!*

I say let them go for it , natural selection will ensure that they won't reproduce so let em go for it and die out. It kind of reminds me of the Shaker's in America's sordid religious past they didn't believe in sex for any reason, so now they're gone. Let people do what they want, as anyone should have figured out by now people will basically find a way to do whatever they want regardless of the law. It's not exactly my cup of tea but I could really care less who people decide to do the mattress mambo with.

uh... because it's gross.

Yeh, that argument doesn't really hold a lot of weight.

I think that foot fetishes are THE most disgusting thing in the world but it doesn't make it wrong or mean it should be illegal.

You make it appear like there was a genetic disposition which caused some people to only reproduce with their siblings (see the exclusion of isolated communities above, by the way). That's kind of a pointless argument.

Meet me in the parking lot.

For that reason right there. It goes against nature.

Plus, like cheeselog said, it's gross.

Where exactly does it say it goes against nature?

So let's just imagine you and your husband happened to be informed of an increased risk for your future children of suffering from an inherited disease. You could make the choice not to have babies - but would you want the state to criminalize intercourse between the two of you?

Also (I hate to play the Mershaullk here -jk) but "gross" should never ever be an argument for sending someone to jail. Someone might find your ears gross (hypothetically!), or the way you eat chicken. You wouldn't want to be locked away for that reason, would you?

"Incest, apparently for sound Darwinian reasons, is surprisingly common in nature"

I see. So according to this judge, in homosexual relationship it is OK to do a sibling, but not in a heterosexual relationship.
I wonder what his opinion is about having sex under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That will increase the risk of genetic defects too.
Now what about people with genetic defects like inheritable diabetes, are they allowed to have sex at all?

I don't see why the government should be involved in this decision at all. It is strictly a private matter between consenting adults.

Incest does occur in nature, and we encourage incest in animals we are breeding for specific purposes (dogs, cattle, etc.). Claiming that it "goes against nature" because it increases the risk of genetic defect is akin to discouraging people with inherited genetic defects (dwarfism, albinism, etc.) from having children for the same reason. Anyone care to try that one out on the general public?


Sure, it might be distasteful to some people, and I strongly encourage those people to not participate in it.

You got me wrong. Said judge is arguing against the prohibition of incest.

Hey, incest is endorsed in the bible!

Good enough for me...

*Disclaimer* The opinions expressed below are not necessarily those of the poster. This is just a guess. The mind of a politician is a scary place.


protecting the rights of the unconceived would be a viable justification to some judges

I love feet! and if the sister is hot I say go for it.. I have about 6 female friends that I call my sisters(see the post the real you thread) and I've hooked up with some of them, lol not the same but hey, if they're adults and they wanna do it, let them.. their* kids are probably gonna be real screwed up when they're older but hey! thats an entirely different argument

SICKO!! I'd say you deserve 10-life for that.

Sick bastid.. :D

suckertalk ahead:
Now that is a very legitimate reason NOT to have laws prohibiting the "doing" of a brother or sister .
(I really prayed you meant something else by doing, right before I entered this thread, but whatev..)


I do have a question myself.
Do you think the "uh....because it's gross" remark would've been made if it wasn't for those very same laws?

I mean, I do think it's gross myself, but I do wonder if that's because I don't think my brothers are very f*ckable, or if being brought up with the laws made me think so.
There are enough cultures in which it is normal and acceptable to get wed to a cousin...not my culture, so I think that's pretty gross too..

What do you think? Maybe laws like that aren't all bad?

I know that incest was widely practiced within the Spanish monarchy, just to keep it all in the family. I am not sure if incest was practiced by all monarchies in Europe.

The bible will have you believe that because there was only Adam and Eve and their descendents, we are all just a pool of brothers and sisters inbreeding with one another without major consequences. When we know in reality that's not true, otherwise these genetic defects experienced by the inbreeding of the Spanish monarchy would be present today. Plus we'd all look the same >.< yuk! (No offense, DL)

The migrations of people that allowed blood evolution prevents strangers from being related far down the generational chain in order to prevent inbreeding.

The issue of genetic mutations is not the only issue agaisnt incest. There are also families that have children of all one gender (all boys, all girls) Unless, you are advocating parent-child incest (which I know you are not) it would impossible for said families (only one single gendered children) to go forth with incest.

I would be emotionally attached to my cousin, say who isn't my brother, but he is the son of my uncle, my father's brother. While first cousin incest is more widely recognized (my great-grandmother married her first cousin) the blood has already been mucked-up by generations of mixing.

I think the entire population of the State of Tennessee is one family.

King Charles II of Spain


Family tree of Charles II king of Spain


Source

I personally think that the majority of our world views, beliefs, ideals are a direct result of social conditioning, I'll give an example...

I was at one point totally homophobic and anti-gay. I was raised in a strict religious household and from an early age taught that homosexuality was a sin against god, disgusting, unnatural and was raised to believe that homosexuals were filthy, sex-mad individuals.

I got a brain and a mind of my own, experienced life for myself and now my views on homosexuality and other subjects are a million miles from how I was raised and how I once thought.

I think the same applies here, society has taboo's, parents and society teach children these views and so it goes from generation to generation. I try, don't always succeed, but I try, to not pass my views and beliefs on to my kids but help them to develop their own set of values and ideals that are personal to them, not imposed on them by society or me or my wife, but beliefs and views that they have developed themselves. It seems to be working, they are kind, not easily swayed by peers, non-judgemental of the things a lot of their friends are and, fingers crossed, can go on thinking for themselves without bowing to the pressure to conform that society tries to heap on us in order to ultimately keep us under "control" for reasons that I won't go into here as it'd go on too long. :D

Bottom line, if it works for you, it doesn't affect how I live or adversely affect other peoples lives then go for it.